What is the Answer on Illegal Immigration?
Last week, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer, signed into law the now famous SB 1070 Immigration Bill. It has been the top national news story for over a week now. We all know there is no easy answer, but really, what should we do about illegal immigration?
You can read the full text of the SB 1070 (the "Bill") here. But, in layman's terms, the Bill essentially requires law enforcement officers to determine the immigration status of people they lawfully stop if there is reasonable suspicion that the person is in the United States unlawfully. If they determine the person is an illegal immigrant, law enforcement must transport that person to a federal facility for processing.
In its entirety, the Bill is 17 pages of single spaced type and contains pages of language about what law enforcement officers must do to determine reasonable suspicion, and properly process people they determine are in the country unlawfully. In other words, the Bill is mostly directions on how to protect the rights of the illegal immigrants.
The Bill states, in pertinent part: "The provisions of this act are intended to work together to discourage and deter the unlawful entry and presence of aliens and economic activity by persons unlawfully present in the United States.... For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city,town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States,a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person. The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States Code Section1373(c)."
Now, for the puzzling part: people all over the world are outraged by this Bill. Living in Arizona during this discussion has been extremely interesting. We have seen protesters and marchers from all over the country gather on the steps of the State Capitol to protest the Bill. The majority of protesters admit they have never read it. Innocent bystanders have been intimidated into joining protest rallies. And, Arizona businesses have been inundated with correspondence from "boycotters" who insist businesses take a stand against the Bill.
We really don't take a position on the Bill here at the Rudy Syndrome. But, we do know that to fairly analyze this issue, we must first distinguish between legal and illegal immigration. We are strong supporters of legal immigration and agree illegal immigration is a problem that must be solved. Being in a border state where illegal immigration is particularly troublesome makes it obvious how serious a problem this is. We hear reports of immigrants and border patrol agents being killed almost daily here in Arizona. That must stop.
So, what do we do? We have yet to hear any of the opponents of the Bill propose any alternatives. Maybe some smart Rudy Syndrome readers have good ideas about how to improve the Bill or how to start over from scratch and fix this problem once and for all. The two Senators from Arizona, Jon Kyl and John McCain, have proposed a Ten Point Border Security Action Plan as a place to start. Maybe that will give us a jumping off point for a discussion. But, we would really like to hear some suggestions.
We would also make the observation that Governor Brewer may end up generating the unintended consequence of forcing the federal government to come up with a bi-partisan solution to the illegal immigration problem. Not because she was a brilliant strategist, but because Congress is really ticked off at Arizona right now. If that happens, great.
In the meantime, let us hear from you. What is the answer on illegal immigration?
As a post script, one of our readers sent us a series of pictures of a commonly used path just south of Tucson, Arizona that human smugglers often use to travel into Arizona. We didn't realize there was an environmental clean up issue that went along with illegal immigration. Apparently Southern Arizona is turning into a landfill.
You can read the full text of the SB 1070 (the "Bill") here. But, in layman's terms, the Bill essentially requires law enforcement officers to determine the immigration status of people they lawfully stop if there is reasonable suspicion that the person is in the United States unlawfully. If they determine the person is an illegal immigrant, law enforcement must transport that person to a federal facility for processing.
In its entirety, the Bill is 17 pages of single spaced type and contains pages of language about what law enforcement officers must do to determine reasonable suspicion, and properly process people they determine are in the country unlawfully. In other words, the Bill is mostly directions on how to protect the rights of the illegal immigrants.
The Bill states, in pertinent part: "The provisions of this act are intended to work together to discourage and deter the unlawful entry and presence of aliens and economic activity by persons unlawfully present in the United States.... For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city,town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States,a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person. The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States Code Section1373(c)."
Now, for the puzzling part: people all over the world are outraged by this Bill. Living in Arizona during this discussion has been extremely interesting. We have seen protesters and marchers from all over the country gather on the steps of the State Capitol to protest the Bill. The majority of protesters admit they have never read it. Innocent bystanders have been intimidated into joining protest rallies. And, Arizona businesses have been inundated with correspondence from "boycotters" who insist businesses take a stand against the Bill.
We really don't take a position on the Bill here at the Rudy Syndrome. But, we do know that to fairly analyze this issue, we must first distinguish between legal and illegal immigration. We are strong supporters of legal immigration and agree illegal immigration is a problem that must be solved. Being in a border state where illegal immigration is particularly troublesome makes it obvious how serious a problem this is. We hear reports of immigrants and border patrol agents being killed almost daily here in Arizona. That must stop.
So, what do we do? We have yet to hear any of the opponents of the Bill propose any alternatives. Maybe some smart Rudy Syndrome readers have good ideas about how to improve the Bill or how to start over from scratch and fix this problem once and for all. The two Senators from Arizona, Jon Kyl and John McCain, have proposed a Ten Point Border Security Action Plan as a place to start. Maybe that will give us a jumping off point for a discussion. But, we would really like to hear some suggestions.
We would also make the observation that Governor Brewer may end up generating the unintended consequence of forcing the federal government to come up with a bi-partisan solution to the illegal immigration problem. Not because she was a brilliant strategist, but because Congress is really ticked off at Arizona right now. If that happens, great.
In the meantime, let us hear from you. What is the answer on illegal immigration?
As a post script, one of our readers sent us a series of pictures of a commonly used path just south of Tucson, Arizona that human smugglers often use to travel into Arizona. We didn't realize there was an environmental clean up issue that went along with illegal immigration. Apparently Southern Arizona is turning into a landfill.
Posted by Atty Jones at 6 May 2010, 5:20 PM 
Categories: uncategorized
Tags: SB 1070 McCain Kyl Arizona immigration Arizona immigration bill immigration
Categories: uncategorized
Tags: SB 1070 McCain Kyl Arizona immigration Arizona immigration bill immigration
As a Native New Yorker who previously resided in Arizona and who retains many ties to this wonderful state, I find the mainstream media's distortion of SB 1070 to be nothing short of amazing. The media portrays the Bill as one that allows law enforcement to simply detain anyone who they believe "looks like an illegal alien."
Of course, this is not the case. Of course, those in the media who are responsible for this irresponsible sensationalism have never lived in Arizona and have no appreciation of the magnitude of the problems confronting Arizonans.
But suddenly, with the passage of the Bill, everyone, including the President, is on the verge of hysterics over illegal immigration, clamoring for an "immigration solution". (Where have these people been for the last 10 - 20 years?) Sadly, they are jumping on the political bandwagon of the moment - more interested in grabbing their :30 of the daily news cycle, than addressing the plethora of social, economic and cultural issues which are borne out of illegal immigration.
In this writer's humble opinion, the solution to the immigration problem is really not that complicated. It doesn't require studies, committees, hearings or task forces. It involves enforcing the laws we currently have. It involves securing the border, utilizing many of the recommendations found in the Ten Point Border Security Action Plan. It involves "doing" rather than "talking." Enough talking already.
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We are all about more action and less talk here at the Rudy Syndrome. Thanks for your post.
Atty Jones
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This may not be a popular viewpoint, but protesters of this Bill are missing the point. Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL. I was born in the US but spent part of my life in Canada. Both of my children were born in Canada. When I moved back to the US, I spent the time, and yes, the money, to bring my children with me legally. It never occurred to me to do otherwise. I understand that many people are coming to this country for a better life. If you have a poorer country right across the border, of course they are going to want to cross. By not securing our border, through whatever means necessary, we have allowed this problem to fester and grow. It seems like this is a "no brainer". Of course, the illegal immigrants it affects, and their families, are going to protest. But since they are illegal, their voice should not count, because they are illegal. I fully support Senators Kyl and McCain. Someone with some authority has to take a stand. Excellent post Atty Jones!
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As someone who has been through the process, you are in a unique position to fairly pass judgment on this. We don't always want the popular view, we just want you to speak the truth.
Thanks for your comments,
Atty Jones
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As I see it, there is really only one solution that eventually has to happen.
We need two-tiered citizenship. We can make it easier for immigrants to get in if they are willing to temporarily accept a lower standard of living (but still much higher than where they are now). For example, we could create a lower min wage. They can work their way up to full citizenship if they have the drive and motivation to do so. But in the meantime, we can make sure they are documented.
IMHO, this would help both AZ and Mexican economies and would decrease crime rates.
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Thanks, Dennis. Another interesting perspective. I think we're making progress here, folks.
Appreciate the post,
Atty Jones
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Amended bill after HB 2162:
“For any lawful stop, detention or arrest made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien and is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation. ….. A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution.”
It is interesting to note that out of the 17 pages of the bill, this one paragraph is what is causing all the uproar. I think the amendment that was enacted almost immediately upon the passage of SB 1070 does try to clarify the law. My concern is what is “reasonable suspicion” that a person detained is an alien unlawfully present in the U.S. and can that be done without some sort of profiling. The law does not seem to give any guidance to that point. It still seems like too much discretion on the part of individual law enforcement officers.
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Thanks for the language from the updated House version. Maybe if they defined "reasonable suspicion" by a Constitutional definition the same as "probable cause" that would be a start? It is troubling that law enforcement officers are left to determine what is reasonable. That is almost never a good idea.
Thanks for the insight,
Atty Jones
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Thanks Christine I appreciate your post. For the record I am an opponent of SB 1070 but found your blog a sensible way to express thoughts & debate on such a hot button issue. And I appreciate you actually providing the Ten Point Border Security Action Plan. It’s amazing how much we listen to the mainstream media world without getting much more information than what is on the surface. How ironic that I would get some of the more useful information from an old high school buddy on Facebook.
Since the Ten Point Border Security Action Plan addresses the resources/funding of the border I would definitely like to see, I wanted to suggest /inquire about laws aimed at the employers who employ illegal aliens. Are the current State or Federal laws tough enough on these employers? I would like to see laws with some teeth i.e. high enough fines to affect the cost of doing business or actual business licenses taken away.
In closing I would like to state that I am opposed to SB 1070 not for what it does to illegal immigrants but for the impacts on U.S. CITIZENS that may act and look like “illegal” immigrants. Both my parents immigrated to the United States and became legal citizens which is why I am particularly sensitive to this aspect of SB 1070. And while the amended bill clarifies law enforcement may not consider race, color or national origin – it does not specify what it CAN use other than “reasonable suspicion” - this broad drag net leaves too much room for mistakes in my mind.
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First, Theresa, great to hear from you!
Your perspective is so helpful since your parents had an immigration experience of their own. We will add the employer enforcement to the mix in our collective solution. We've read that as many as 45% of employers don't even collect I-9 forms, let alone verify that immigration documents are in order. So, it looks like you are probably on the right track.
Thanks for the personal insights,
Atty Jones
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Would you be willing to explain your comment "impacts on U.S. CITIZENS that may act and look like 'illegal immigrants.'" Please, define what you see to be the "impact."
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There are a few impacts that come to mind but before I get to them I wanted to make it clear that I am not one of those opposed to SB 1070 based on the hyperbole that this law is turning Arizona into Nazi Germany. I do recognize Arizona has some serious illegal immigration problems that are not being addressed by the feds and Arizona citizens are acting accordingly. But as a reasonable thinking person I’m also not convinced that only illegal immigrants will be the ones stopped questioned and/or detained.
Which brings me to my first impact, the erosion of a U.S. Citizen’s rights as conveyed in the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution:
“Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
What’s the big deal many ask – just show your ID! The deal is suddenly there are now “degrees” of U.S. Citizenship, which in my opinion, is out of sync with the 14th Amendment. One U.S. Citizen’s rights are changed in comparison to another i.e. one U.S. Citizen is innocent until proven guilty while another is guilty until they can prove otherwise. If it were a situation without any real alternatives I could possibly accept the “some U.S. Citizen’s must take one for the team” approach but that is not the case here.
I will convey other impacts through the experience of my nephew, Griffin Robert Campbell. He is a fine young man that is a team leader by way of talent & example on his college baseball team. He can be found clearing tree limbs off his elderly neighbor’s roof after a severe windstorm or volunteering his time as a counselor for youth camps. One recent afternoon he was escorted out of the neighborhood 7-Eleven he had patronized since he was a child. The reason, according to the new clerk, “you look like the Mexicans we caught stealing on our surveillance tapes.” Suffice to say it was all straightened out when the store manager apologized personally to Griffin and his parents confirming he was indeed not the suspect they had on tape. Now for argument sake, instead of the derogatory “Mexicans” in the clerk’s statement, replace it with “thieves” - could that now serve as “reasonable suspicion” under SB 1070 understanding?
My point is a law intended to help with a serious situation is not immune to mistakes when it leaves the door open for a variety of interpretation. The impact of such a law is what my nephew felt immediately following his experience – anger & resentment. Two emotions that are not conducive to finding lasting solutions to the very real immigration problems Arizona faces.
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I could not agree more whole heartedly. The Federal Gov has failed miserably to protect the citizens of Arizona from the encroachment of the tide of illegal aliens coming through our porous borders not only in Arizona but Texas. California and New Mexico. Arizona is doing it for themselves. The fed and Abeam/Bush have betrayed the sacred trust to protect and defend the Constitution. THe operative word is "illegal". If you want to come to the USA do it right or don't do it at all. If they do not have the credentials send them packin ASAP. If the Feds don't do it the citizenry must act. The PC disregard for the law and the safety of the citizenry can no longer be tolerated. The neglect of the sacred trust that is bequeathed to an official by their election has been abrogated by political expediency and a lust for power. THat disposition has rendered those politicians as unfit for the office they hold and disqualifies them from future service. THey must be replaced in 2010.
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We were wondering when all the pro-SB 1070 comments would come, Peter. If 80% of people support it, our readers must be decidedly in the minority. But, we hear you loud and clear on the need to add deportation to the collective proposal and will work that in, as well.
Thanks for your passionate post,
Atty Jones
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Thanks, Christine, for allowing a venue where we can post our thoughts and for your willingness to create a constructive solution.
I support SB1070 and the 10 Point Border Security Plan. I put the blame of our current illegal immigration reality squarely on the shoulders of the Federal government. Because of their inaction to enforce the current federal illegal immigration laws and for not being proactive in securing our borders, Arizona now faces the wrath of all who believe we are racists, profilers, Nazi’s and any other name that we have been called!
As with any lack of enforcement – whether in the home, school, work place, state, or country, when a decision is made that ‘enough is enough’ and the rules/laws begin to be enforced, a backlash WILL occur. Any of us who are parents, teachers, leaders, etc. have experienced this and know that it is true. We, Arizona and its residents, are paying the price today because of the laxness of enforcing the CURRENT federal law in regards to illegal immigration.
Our inaction to enforcing the laws, have allowed the drug dealers, human smugglers and criminals to gain access to our great state and country and put us ALL in danger. It has to stop sometime!
Six years ago, our family moved to Arizona from Indiana. We love this state – the diversity of cultures (other countries, plus all 50 states) is what makes us so unique. It is very unsettling to watch what is happening – but I believe as we hold fast – we will be stronger and safer.
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You're the first person to mention enforcement of current laws, although we hear that a lot in causal conversation. We'll highlight that, as well.
Thanks for your post and for sticking with Arizona even when we aren't very popular,
Atty Jones
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For Immediate Release: May 13, 2010
Contact: Douglas Cole, 602-528-3684
Statement by Paulina Morris Regarding United Nations "Human Rights" Council's Position on Arizona's Illegal Immigration Law
"It appears the United Nations 'Human Rights' Council has taken a moment from their disproportionate focus on attacking Israel to weigh in on Arizona law. It's not surprising members of the same organization who have taken sides with known terrorists against America and its closest allies now lash out against Arizona's efforts to secure its borders. See the irony and consistency in this stance?
"Seven countries accused of human rights violations, including Libya, Angola and Malaysia, won seats on the U.N. Human Rights Council in an uncontested election this month. As experts noted, once ensconced in these human rights bodies, such states are given the legal and political tools to avoid democracy, criticize free speech, demonize Israel, and exonerate extremists.
"It is indicative of this dysfunctional organization that they would fail to recognize the true victims of human rights abuses are those illegal immigrants who currently fall prey to smugglers and human trafficking.
"Until recently, the United States refused to participate in this Council, a decision reversed by the Obama administration. It is yet another example of our broken government leading our nation in the wrong direction.
"I say to the Council 'get your own house in order before you criticize Arizona.'"
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Paulina Morris is running for Congress in the 3rd Congressional District of Arizona. Her comment is from a May 13, 2010 press release related to the Arizona immigration issue.
We welcome other candidates in the 3rd Congressional District to make a statement which we will gladly post here, as well.
Atty Jones
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We MUST secure our borders. The federal government has let us down, but with renewed leadership in Washington, we can achieve border security that means something. I will work hard to be part of an illegal immigration solution and will not support Amnesty.
In the state Senate I worked with law enforcement to provide for a safer Arizona, and I will fight against anyone who would undermine our national security with passive policies. Help me voice real solutions on our border issues. My record proves I’m a strong supporter of border enforcement, and I will bring that testimony to Congress.
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Jim Waring is running for Congress in the 3rd Congressional District of Arizona. His comment comes from his campaign website.
Atty Jones
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We need to secure our borders now. I believe ending illegal immigration and border security are national security issues. The federal government has failed utterly to fulfill its responsibilities. President Obama and Speaker Pelosi have made a greater effort to bring the masterminds behind the 9/11 attacks to the United States and to protect their rights than they have made to keep drug smugglers, human traffickers, and terrorists out of the United States and to protect our rights.
I support the Kyle-McCain plan to send the National Guard to our border now. A recent study by the Congressional Research Service shows that fences work. This is a problem we can solve, if we have the right leaders in Congress. The politicians in Washington are out of touch with the people of our State and our great country. I will fight to secure our borders and for real immigration reform, not an amnesty.
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Ben Quayle is also running for Congress in the 3rd Congressional District of Arizona. His comment comes from his campaign website.
Atty Jones
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We need leaders who will insist that border security is a national security problem for the United States. We must enforce our laws and eliminate the lawlessness along our border.
Arizona is the number 1 state for illegal drug trafficking in the United States. This must stop! I find it incomprehensible that our borders remain unsecured, but all travelers have to take their shoes off to fly on an airplane. We screen visa applicants and travelers, but we leave the back door to our country wide open.
Read my Border Security Plan.
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Vernon Parker is the Mayor of Paradise Valley, Arizona and is running for Congress in the 3rd Congressional District of Arizona. His comment comes from his campaign website. He was the only CD3 candidate to post a Border Security Plan which is linked in his comment.
Atty Jones
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I find the photos of the human smuggler path very enlightening.
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The way to mitigate the huge problems caused by non-citizens living in the US illegally is to disincentiveize the practice.
- Get rid of the 3/10 Ban. It could be done in two paragraphs of legislation.
- Then, start a guest worker program. Now!
- Get rid of the notion that babies born to illegals in the US are automatically citizens. That law was specifically meant to bestow citizenship on the children of slaves brought to this country against their will. Specifically deny citizenship to babies of illegals.
A lot of foreigners want to come here to work and then leave. They stay, not because they want to but because of the 3/10 Ban. If they stay illegally for up to a year then they have to wait 3 years before they can petition to return here. If they stay here illegally longer than that, they have to wait 10 years to petition to return here.Let them go home today without the 3/10 restriction and immediately apply for either a guest worker permit or citizenship.
There will of course be exceptions. Perhaps, those who have lived in the US for many years and been productive, tax paying, English-speaking non-felons could be allowed to stay here to apply for citizenship. There might be some concession given for students in those families, who are applying to a state college.
AZ SB1070 won't be in force for another 2+ months, so it would be logical for its critics to wait until it IS enforced to comment on
HOW it is being enforced.
Arizona's legislation, SB 1070:
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Wow, thank you for the thoughtful response. You have obviously put a lot of thought into this and we always respect that here at the Rudy Syndrome, as you know. We will incorporate this into the plan.
Thanks,
Atty Jones
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Unfortunately only selective parts of the law are quoted. I urge everyone to read the entire law and then make up your own mind.
In my opinion the powers given to police officers is just a bit too much. The indemnity given to the same police officers is too great. This will result in abuse. And I hope nobody thinks that there are no racially biased police officers in Arizona.
The really bad part of the law however is in the prohibition of any Arizona jurisdiction to soften the blows of the current federal immigration laws. This is basically an order to "take no prisoners". That kind of thinking has many historic precedents. The most blatant ended up in the institutions of Auschwitz and Buchenwald; and here at home in the internment of Americans of Japanese decent during WWII. Do we really want to go there?
This law is at best dealing with the symptom of undesired (by some people) immigration. It does not address the cause, and therefore will not resolve anything in the long run.
In my opinion the causes are first and foremost the extreme economic disparity between the rich and powerful USA and its southern neighbors Mexico and beyond. How much of that inequality is caused and perpetuated by American entities - from large corporations to military might (does NFTA has anything to do with this?).
The second cause is the criminality and therefore very high price of drugs.
I do not see anything in this new law that addresses these issues. Once again the lawmakers have failed to deal with the real problem and have just voiced the most popular and vociferous opinion of the day.
A good look at the US involvement in Mexico's and central America's industry and agriculture, and at the legalities of some drugs - Marijuana in particular - might be a better way to address this population migration problem.
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You're right. Most mainstream media have only quoted one paragraph of SB 1070. That's why we linked the entire 17 page bill for our readers to read. It's important to read the controversial paragraph in context.
Whether legalizing drugs and leveling the economic disparity between Mexico and the US will help solve the issue of illegal immigration remains to be seen. We are completely at a loss as to your concentration camp references, and we would emphasize our aim is to propose a solution to illegal immigration and not population migration. But, it's obvious you have given thought to your position and as with each suggestion we received so far, we will attempt to work your thoughts into the collective solution.
We sincerely appreciate your thoughtful post,
Atty Jones
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This article is intersting – with a some up to date interesting info.we enjoy your website layout where'd you buy the theme?
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Excellent article!
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